Curse

Nosaj Noshnoj · Jan 05, 2006, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Everyone, i would like you thank you for your posts.

I have taken a lot of heat for starting such an emotionally stiring debate; and for good reason. I made a few blanket statements that i should have been more descriptive about. Also, I should have been open minded about more builds with my ele before posting such a topic.

Those of you who defended me, thanks. Those of you who shot me down, stepped on my face, and burned me at the stake, thank you as well. Some of you have 'opened my eyes' so to speak with ideas i would have never though of. I have tried some of the suggested other builds here and have have good success.

Anyone who still finds this topic interesting keep posting, but besides that, thanks to all for your reply's

CKaz · Jan 05, 2006, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilebill

It's all great advice, but picking up the henchies and testing my ele outside Elona Reach versus the drakes, trying earth, air, fire, and water was not encouraging. My monk, warrior, and ranger all do a far better job.

Ok lets take that then, though testing vs one target is an odd one.
What henchies did you take? For the record there wasn't ONE thing I didnt successfully do with just my E/ME and henchies in the desert, INCLUDING all the missions there.

What wasn't encouraging? Were you interrupted by them?
That may be why the only other caster you mention better was monk?
Consider Glyph of Concentration.

What's your secondary? If you're E/ME there's also Mantra of Concentration (or Resolve which becomes a more worthy of a consideration if you happen to be pumping Inspiration anyways). There you can still use arcane echo too. I'm leaving elites out of the picture for now too.

Didn't the Drakes blind with their Earth skills? Forget off-hand, but unlike what it does to the warrior and ranger it does of real worth to the ele.

Take too much damage? Earth line armor and wards stack ridiculously well. Some of your own earth blasts in return can ignore damage. You should have some collector items or at least working on them which helps any element.

They're casters too, snare them with any number of choices and with their longer casts Maelstorm could tie them up a bit for you. If you had the mind freeze elite, focusing on one with that and Maelstorm would write one off immediately.

If you respect them, their damage, their survival - they're earth elementalists.

As warriors often have a tougher time with warrior mobs, consider that too.
I forget offhand if they are more ward vs melee or elements, but that could be a factor to consider.

Anyways it's hardly an exhaustive test, and without better details about all your test subjects, lines, skills, equip, etc, its really hard to make much of it.

But kudos for giving it a shot anyways

coolsti · Jan 06, 2006, 11:03 AM // 11:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilebill

It's all great advice, but picking up the henchies and testing my ele outside Elona Reach versus the drakes, trying earth, air, fire, and water was not encouraging. My monk, warrior, and ranger all do a far better job.

Before you make any general conclusions, you really need to test out your ele with various builds against various monsters and in various locations. Certain classes and certain builds are good or crappy against different types of enemies.

An elementalist for example does not really interrupt enemy spells (ok, with some knockdown spells this can be done, but not as quickly or effectively as a ranger or mesmer) and so testing your ele against spell casting drakes was probably not a good test. Try using your air or combination air/earth or air/water elementalist against Jade warriors! You can blind them, you can weaken them, and with water or earth you can slow them. Many many more examples I can make ....

Francis Crawford · Jan 08, 2006, 06:00 AM // 06:00

I'm playing an Ele/Me, moseying on along through the game, and having a lot of fun. Level 20, unascended, Drok's Armor, and I find it pretty easy to solo two hydra, but pretty hard to solo three. Solo farming has its issues with this class combination -- except against gargoyles

-- because it's not realistic without a lot of enchantments, and hence

A. Is vulnerable to enchantment strippers
B. Runs into severe problems with skillbar space limitations

Still, I look forward to trying again once I cap Ether Renewal ...

But going out in a party -- even a henchie party -- as a straight damage dealer can be a lot of successful fun.

And by the way:

1. Backfire deals a lot of damage.
2. So does Arcane Echoed Inferno.

Tough to put both in the same build, however.

Francis Crawford · Jan 08, 2006, 06:02 AM // 06:02

Oh, and here's a build idea not to use: Mist Form and AoE water spells.

At least, don't use it against Blessed Griffons -- they run Smite Hex. (Youch.)

Auldaur · Jan 08, 2006, 06:05 AM // 06:05

My first character was an e/me. I didn't enjoy playing her because I thought the self-healing skills weren't enough and I had to depend too much on healer/protector henchmen or monks in my group. I mainly used earth, but I experimented with the other elements as well.

Personally, I found the character boring and have moved on to an r/mo that I'm having a lot more fun with. I didn't find there was enough to do with my elementalist for it to be fun.

Now anytime I get in a group with an elementalist, I notice they need the most healing.. I'm not really a fan of them. Constant healing is frustrating.

Phades · Jan 08, 2006, 06:54 AM // 06:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKaz

No way really?!?! Actually though have you done higher level stuff at all? Level 28s usually don't just keel over, and ya see you cast your big bombs EARLY while they clump up, not LATE like celebrating henchmen.

Hate to break it to you, but fire goes against armor level, while most necro skills do not. High level mobs = high armor level. Ignoring the armor level gives faster and more efficent damage. That causes them to drop like flies, not the 300 damage potential spells that have 60-80% of the damage mitigated. Only the mursaat named critters really go super high, but im sure you understand what im talking about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKaz

That's why 'theory-GW' only goes so far. In a group I'm constantly delivering nasty nasty AoE damage with some single target DD mixed in for knockout priorities or when they're not clumped more of that. My build works, and the core of it didn't notice a bump with the patch (again but for one day when they nerfed every kind of any AoE and everything ran like nuts).

So you want an award for still being able to use some of the skills to a reasonable effect? I dont think anyone you commented against seriously stated that all AOE was unusuable. Many are talking about other more viable alternatives in the place of the standard elementalist echo builds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKaz

If it's just for PvP, hey GREAT IDEA, have some things work differently there rather than sack PvE. Their changes arguably didn't even make sense (so instead of the AI finishing off kills they run from low damage AOE pulsing attacks for example).

Splintering up the game for how skills work would be detrimental to player knowledge, because the game is attempting to blend the two together.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKaz

I'd argue about Feast>>SS most situations but that gets off topic,

Considering your comparisons agianst eles, while including necromancers in the subject its not that hard to follow the corrolation of FoC in the discussion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKaz

AoE nerf hurts MoP but not SS. MoP wasn't elite. Combined it was a lot of fun in certain situations, thats all. Curses has some neat things but I would agree it could use a tweak, just like Mesmer's illusion line.

I dont know if they are finished modifying the AI, but it would be nice if mobs didnt cast through backfire as well or attack through empathy unless the next attack will kill. That is a mob intellegence issue, not a SS/AOE issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKaz

But all this gets away from me firing back at the original thread, 'Hey I still use and enjoy my elementalist' rather than some of the other posts 'Why bother now' and 'I deleted mine'. Whatever. I'm a rube for going after Ensign - it's pretty obvious I was looking for someone who made a bad argument and was ready to open-up, and I picked a sarcastic one.

Dont read forums and play what you want to instead of trying to convince others that a > b > c in instance z seems alot easier.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKaz

Meanwhile though we have those saying 'why Ele' and how a Necro>>Ele. I already appreciate Necros so I don't need to defend them. However as this thread suggests to throw the ele out of the group I whole-heartedly disagree. NEEDED? No. Short of a monk (and rarely are they needed as much or as many as groups suggest) and an aggro magnet (which doesn't have to be a warrior) there's not a lot NEEDED.

That is the crux of the issue, not if people like playing it or not. The point is that every profession should be equally needed, not just key parts from some or one over another.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKaz

I'm not a fan of blanket statements in this game - even your 'some skill sets have no place'. I'd love to see your list of skills that have no place.

Use the forum search function.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKaz

That was mentioned if you wanted to pull off what Maelstorm used to do by itself (utter spellcaster group ownage pve), yes you'd have to lead with some kind of opponent slow.

Short of a 90% slow, the monster will move out of it before 3-4 waves pass. I forget the exact count since i did not go out before this post to check exactly how many and what types will do that. If something is snared before a meteor shower and is in the center when it hits, the knock down element of the meteor shower will prevent most of them from escaping. Using ice spikes, ward against foes, or frozen burst tends to be the most efficent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKaz

Deep Freeze slowing a whole pack isn't a bad thing though and has other uses. Waste time? Usually it's a lead off spell. Energy? Maybe you're using one of the energy Glyphs. Keep in mind you're probably using an attunement. Maybe another did Grasping Earth, whatever.

See above.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKaz

Easily replaced? Well as it was, Maelstorm wasn't easily replaced - 10seconds of click and forget interrupts on a caster pack, with damage if you put a bit into water. If you mix with some kind of slow it could still provide some kind of that love, just mobs won't take the shower like they used to.

Hence the AOE patch. Also mobs will escape the malestorm with anything short of a 90% snare. It takes rare positioning and monster types to allow them to get multiple hits on them while snared and have them move back into the malestorm for the remainder of the duration. Shower only works with other snares due to the time spent knocked down. These balance issues however only apply to pve, as in pvp these skills do not provide results unless it is impossible to escape the area of effect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKaz

Anyways that was more of an extra. Mesmers and Rangers certainly deny or disable better, point here was this used to disable (and either allow or do the killing) entire casting groups. I owned hydras with this spell in Perdition Rock.

You seem to point out many of the reasons why the AOE patch was put in place easily.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKaz

So where you might argue 'why would you bother' if you could replicate the effect, might you not check it out? Maybe two need to pull it off for energy and timing considerations, but another option.

Limited pulls, cry of frustration, or like i stated earlier with the class skill diversity existing that you didnt need to use it. Considering the monsters involved, simply moving effectivly eliminates most of their threat. Only one profession really needs to stay in one spot constantly while engaging a target. Even so, the warrior does not need to do so through meteor showers, eruptions, and other happiness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKaz

I just don't like blanket statements for this game because they're usually wrong. Which got me on this thread, and also got me owned

Only with ones that were made incorrectly or too specifically. You happened to do both at the same time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKaz

And Necros don't magically spring >> Ele. They always rocked, just some didn't know it.

That is just like most of the mindless people who included firestorm in their echo nukes or warriors who dont know how to body block or pull, but whatever.

lanfear · Jan 08, 2006, 07:25 AM // 07:25

It's all in how you use it. There are plenty of good ele skills that aren't AoE's that can't be done by any other classes.